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single line reefing quick quesition to help newbee

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mikesuej
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Initially Posted - 07/18/2010 : 17:02:56

In my 1997 C250 manual the single line reefing diagram shows that the reefing line should be tied around the boom under the outhaul, then run up through the leech cringle, down to the boom block, through the boom to the block at mast, up to the luff cringle, back down to the cleat. Yet on my boom on the starboard side, there is an eye-strap that is directly under the leech reef point. Is there a reason I wouldn't simply want to tie off the reefing line to that eye-strap rather than totally around the boom? the eye-strap seems like a much cleaner tie-off point for the reefing line. Is there some reason I want to tie around the boom as instructed in manual? Thank you. Also, has anyone had any luck with small blocks in the cringles to reduce the friction upon reefing down? Thanks very much.

Michael T. Janocik
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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/18/2010 : 19:26:06

Warning: I'm a newbie too, so take this with a grain of salt.

My 1998 C250 is similar to yours - both in the manual, and the boom hardware which differs from the manual. It has a cheek block under the first reef cringle on the starboard side, and a cleat in front of it. So rather than tie off through the smaller cringle around the boom, that end of the reefing line is currently rigged to pass through the cheek block and tie off at the cleat.

The other end does not go to the reef cleat at the mast base (note even sure there is a cleat there right now). Instead, it passes through a block at the base of the mast and back to a clutch in the cockpit. In theory, this allows single line reefing without leaving the cockpit.

However, I'm considering changing all this to a 2-line system. The aft reef would be tied off around the aft end of the boom, pass up the port side through the cringle, through the cheek block, and tie off at the cleat. Then the forward line would tie off at the reef cleat as shown in the manual (if there's one there - need to check), up through the reef cringle, and then down through a block at the base of the mast back to the clutch on the cabin top. There would be no reefing line going through the boom at all. It would require 2 separate lines, but both would be easily accessible from the cockpit (so long as I have the boom centered enough to reach the aft reefing point). I think this would overcome much of the friction problem encountered with the single line system, without having to add blocks in the cringles.

Has anyone else done a similar 2-line system to this?

FYI, there are several who have done the blocks in the cringle. A discussion of it can be found at the end of this recent thread:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21693

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/18/2010 19:32:42

mikesuej
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:33:01

Rythmdoctor - thanks for that post. You've made me think about this. The disatvantage of tying off to the eye-strap is that I can't then snug down the cringle at the aft end of boom if I just pull the one line through my rope clutches. But it seems your set up is like two line - you can pull the aft cringle tight over the block and to the cleat, then pull mast cringle down using the line through the rope clutch.

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windsong
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:58:37

Hi Michael,
Just to be clear, you don't have single-line reefing (unless you've made that modification). Single-line reefing also pulls down the tack of the sail as well as the clew, at once, so you don't have to go forward to hook the tack through a reef hook.

As for how to tie the reefing line, I wouldn't feel comfortable using the eye-strap. I like the idea of the forces on that line encircling the boom rather than stressing a single point. People generally use a slip bowline for the job.

Finally, you will find that even when rigged as shown in your manual, you will have a hard time getting the clew down onto the boom, especially on the second reef. I recommend double-clew reefing, which is rigged as follows:

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 09:38:57

A two-line reefing system is much better than the single line approach. I wrote a technical article in the November 2008 Mainsheet on doing this on the C250. Use the existing in-boom line to control the clew. Add a second line to control the tack. Easy setup and very effective. Here is the article.

The Catalina 250 is a great pocket cruiser that combines a spacious interior, large cockpit and excellent sail plan. Like most sailboats, the C250 performs best when kept on her feet. Heeling in excess of 20 degrees results in a loss of speed and comfort. An excellent way to optimize performance is to use effective reefing techniques.

Reefing is one of the topics that will get an online sailing forum really buzzing. It seems that there are as many ways to reef as there are sailors! After experimenting with several reefing methods I have settled on “two-line reefing” as my preferred setup. This system provides for:

1. Simple setup
2. Ease of reefing
3. Safety
4. Excellent sail shape

Some sailors prefer one-line reefing. The advantage of a one-line reefing system is simplicity of setup and ease of reefing. If led to the cockpit it also provides for safety of the crew. One-line reefing, though, has a couple of drawbacks. First, having one line that controls both the reef tack and the reef clew does not result in optimal sail shape. Just because you are reefed does not mean that you should sacrifice optimal sail shape! Secondly, the one-line system poses the danger of pulling out sail slugs. This can occur when the reef clew is drawn aft before the reef tack is set, resulting in strong forces pulling on the sail slugs. The slugs are not intended to anchor the sail against the strong forces of the reef clew. That is what the reinforced reef tack is for. For proper reefing the reef tack must be set before the reef clew. This is difficult to accomplish with one-line reefing.

The two-line system eliminates these problems and is just as easy to set. Here are the major components of the two-line reefing setup described in detail.

First is the main halyard. You will be letting the main halyard out to a point where the reef tack is a little bit above the boom. I marked the spot on the halyard with a permanent marker pen so that the crew knows just how far to let the mainsail down. Once the main is lowered to the correct spot you can set the reef lines, starting with the reef tack.

The reef tack line pulls the reef tack down and forward. It is this forward/downward movement, resulting in a tight luff, which takes the load off of the sail slugs. Setting up the reef tack line is easy. Tie off the line on the cheek block that is already mounted on the port side of the mast. This block is meant for the one-line reefing system but serves this purpose just as well. The block is below and forward of the boom.

The reef tack line then goes up through the reef tack cringle and down to a small block on the mast plate. Note that this block is also below and forward of the boom. This ensures that the reef tack will be pulled down and forward which relieves the sail slugs of holding against the reef clew when it is tightened. The reef tack line then goes through a deck organizer and to a rope clutch.

The reef clew line tightens the foot of the mainsail. It uses the internal boom reefing setup which is nice because it eliminates extra lines and hardware. At the aft end of the boom the line goes up to the reef clew and then down to tie off at the boom. Note that I use a small block held to the reef clew cringle by a ¾” ring. This block minimizes friction and makes deployment of the reef much easier.

The line then goes through the boom and emerges at the goose neck. From there it goes down to a block at the mast plate, back to a deck organizer and then to a rope clutch.

That completes the reefing system. Using the system is easy. Here is what you do:

1. Unload controls that hold down the boom (mainsheet, vang).
2. Tighten the topping lift to hold the boom up (Boomkicker works too).
3. Let out the main halyard to the pre-determined mark.
4. Pull in the reef tack line.
5. Pull in the reef clew line.
6. Trim in the mainsheet, vang and release topping lift.

That’s it! You have a reefed main that retains excellent sail shape and the crew never leaves the safety of the cockpit.

To unreef just follow these steps:

1. Unload controls that hold down the boom (mainsheet, vang).
2. Hold the boom up or use topping lift or Boomkicker.
3. Ease the reef clew line.
4. Ease the reef tack line.
5. Release the topping lift.
6. Raise the halyard.

Here is a tip. We end each sail by reefing. That way the reef is already set if the next sailing day is blowing hard. If it is not windy then simply shake the reef. This will result in reefing and unreefing practice just about every time you sail!

The C250 excels when she is not excessively heeled. Proper reefing is the key to performance and comfort and a two-line system is the optimal way to set the reef. It is a good idea to practice reefing in mild conditions so that you are ready to go when the wind kicks up. Remember, the time to reef is when you first think of it and before things start to get out of hand.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/19/2010 09:59:01

windsong
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 10:22:04

Randy, What a wonderful and helpful treatise on reefing the C250. I'm still absorbing it all. I will say, though, that I have installed single-line reefing on both my reef points without the drawbacks you mention. I simply ease the main halyard to a pre-marked position and haul in on the reefing line, all from the cockpit. The key to not pulling sailslugs is to ease the halyard to the same position that it once hooked on the reef horn. As for sailshape, it's possible my sailshape is not as it should be. My battens are not quite parallel with the boom, as I believe they should be and my top speeds are less under reef, especially second reef. I'll need to do some more analysis on that question.
The disadvantages I personally have experienced are:
1) excessive friction in the looooong path of the single line. Often I have to pull on the line along the boom to help it through. Most of this friction is in the tack grommet, where I should have a block sewn into the sail. (and may yet)
2) A kluge of lines that sometimes foul during a hoist. For this reason, I do the reverse of what you describe. I always shake out the reef before dropping the main for the day.
3) I cannot rig a cunningham without fouling one or the other reefing line.

As for advantages, they're evident in safety and ease, though I will add that as a single-hander I have rigged all my control lines back the cockpit, and I'm happy that single-line reefing only uses 2 clutches, not 4.

Edited by - windsong on 07/19/2010 10:36:09

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 12:59:34

When conditions call for a second reef (not often on our lake) we lower the main and sail on the genny. The 250 sails nicely on the genny alone. Where you are I can see that a second reef would be nice to have and 4 clutches is a lot to devote to reefing.

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mikesuej
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 16:48:30

Windsong - I think I do have single line-reefing. The line goes from the eye-strap on aft starboard boom, through the clew reef cringle, back down to the aft internal boom sheeve, throug the boom and out the mast-end of the boom, up again on the port side to and through the tack reef cringle, down on the starboard side to a mast base block, then through the deck organizer and finally through the rope clutch. When I pull on it, it does bring down the tack and clew, but it seems the clew doesn't really get tight to the boom. I'm just wondering if instead of that eye strap, I installed a v-cleat and then once I pulled tight through the rope clutch, I could then give the clew line a tug through the v-cleat to tighten up on the clew reef cringle. Then tie off the other two reef cringles around the boom with some bungie cord. Anybody tried that? Thanks very much for everyone's help.

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frog0911
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 17:34:37

Hear is the original thread on single line reefing with blocks. The pictures are added here since Shutterfly change there codes and the original will not show up in the thread. All my lines run to the base of the mast then aft to the cockpit.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true& TOPIC_ID=7795& SearchTerms=reefing,smooth,as,glass

Port side

Starboard side

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windsong
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Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 17:35:45

I stand corrected. You have single-line reefing. The problem is that the reefing line goes from the clew to the aft end of the boom. The closer the clew gets to the boom, the more your pulling force shifts to "backwards" instead of "downwards," i.e. your downward vector shrinks to zero.
The V-cleat could work, but a better solution, IMHO, is to place a snatch block on the boom at the reef point (actually, a little aft) and run your reefing line outside the boom. In this way, all the force of the line is pulling the clew down, not backwards, as is the case now.
Having said that, I doubt that if I were you I would go to that trouble. I would probably reach up with my hand and pull the line down until the clew came onto the boom. Not pretty, but effective.
This picture shows how I essentially rigged mine, though I didn't buy this kit:
http://www.mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY& Store_Code=MPS& Category_Code=HARREEFSYS1

Edited by - windsong on 07/20/2010 04:53:46

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 05:31:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by windsong
 ...The problem is that the reefing line goes from the clew to the aft end of the boom. The closer the clew gets to the boom, the more your pulling force shifts to "backwards" instead of "downwards," i.e. your downward vector shrinks to zero...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have seen that this is a huge problem, and was getting ready to describe it when you beat me to it. It's even worse because on my rig the cheek block is about a foot forward of the clew cringle, so you get lousy downward vector on both sides of the cringle. I definitely need to change this.

So this leads to a few questions, partly from my limited (but growing) experience:

<ul><li>I am increasingly thinking of 2-line reefing, but wonder what benefit is provided by running the clew reef through the boom, though an organizer, and to a clutch. Since the clew is right there over the cockpit anyway, why not just tie it off, perhaps to a cleat on the boom (which I happen to have)? Is there some danger from the boom oscillating in a hard blow, so you'd prefer to stand clear of it?</li><li>What are your thoughts on the use of the additional smaller cringles to better secure the foot? I seem to get really lousy sail shape unless I do this.</li><li>Those of you who use the blocks in the cringles have such "tidy" looking reefs. By keeping the reef line entirely on one side of the boom, that seems to allow the sail to flake neatly on the other side of the boom - especially when you don't tie off the additional cringles. Does this clean flaking provide benefits that eliminate the need to do the added tie-offs?</li></ul>

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/20/2010 05:40:19

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 07:48:17

I like the two-line reefing. The in-the-boom setup works great for the clew so why not use it? I do not want to be working at the swinging end of the boom in a blow. The mini-block reduces friction and makes the operation easier. We try to reef on a port tack which keeps all the gear clear. Our main is not loose-footed so we don't tie it off at all. The tack and clew keep the sail down and tight.

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frog0911
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Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 09:52:48

There are two functions that the clew cringle must preform when reefing. One is the vertical function which shortens the sail, the second is the outhaul function which tightens the sail foot to flatten the sail. One thing that is always assumed, but is not mention much is that the outhaul is at max tightness prior to reefing. The assumption is that as the winds approach reefing speed that you have flatten the sail as much as possible. This requires that the outhaul be made tight. This moves the reefing foot cringle aft so as the vertical vector of the sail moves down shortening the sail, the horizontal vector tightens the foot at the reef point. Thus you have shortened the sail and flatten it at the same time.

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jbkayaker
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Response Posted - 07/21/2010 : 10:23:37

Sail magazine's July 2010 issue has an article on reefing titled "One Line or Two?". It's three pages with some clear drawings. It's well written but doesn't really add anything to what you can get by studying the responses above.

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jbkayaker
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Response Posted - 07/21/2010 : 10:39:15

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b4ce05b3127ccec9240c5692c300000010O08QZs2zNsxag9vPho/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

frog0911 - What are these line holder thingys in your post called ? Where can I buy them ?

Edited by - jbkayaker on 07/21/2010 10:41:14

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/21/2010 : 13:06:02

Those are cord bundlers from 3M in their line called "Command Hooks." They sell at home improvement stores, etc although that particular model can be hard to find.

[url="http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Command/home/us_en/products/cord_mngmt/"]3M Cord Bundler[/url]

Edited by - on

frog0911
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Response Posted - 07/21/2010 : 18:04:13

Randy is correct on both accounts. The only place I have been able to find a constant supply is Target.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/21/2010 : 20:31:29

Thanks for the useful info. All of your collective experience is really providing some useful options. Now that my boom is off the boat for repairs to the front sheave (see other topic) it's a great time to reconsider my reefing rig. The way my boat is currently rigged, there is absolutely no outhaul tension on the clew reef cringle, so I will redo that to correct it. I think I will continue with single-line reefing, but with the added blocks in the cringles to reduce friction, and redoing the clew tie-off to increase outhaul tension. Hopefully that will eliminate the need for the additional tie-offs along the boom, which could be hazardous in a heavy blow with the boom swinging back and forth.

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frog0911
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Response Posted - 07/22/2010 : 09:55:48

Two items I forgot to mention are the extra hole in the mainsail head and a small mod to the outhaul for a little more pull. The head of the sail has two holes for attaching the halyard, the one closest to the luff is primary for normal conditions. The second hole is for halyard attachment with a reefed main. This hole allows for both vertical force on the luff and increased tension on the leach. Most of the time I will attach the halyard to the reef hole for cruising so if the winds pipe up everything for reefing is in the correct position. The second thing was to add a small wire block to the outhaul cringle to increase the purchase for better sail flatting.

Edited by - on

windsong
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Response Posted - 07/22/2010 : 11:35:00

I like the 3M line handlers. Do they interfere with your poptop?

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/22/2010 : 12:27:37

Good tips Frog. We use the aft hole for the halyard too. I like that added block on the outhaul.

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frog0911
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Response Posted - 07/23/2010 : 17:04:42

No pop top interference at all. The best thing about the cord bundlers is no holes. Since I have had my boat I have had to replace them three times. Primarily due to sitting out in the hot Florida sun, but a couple as the result of me stepping on them coming back into the cockpit under the sail. Just did not want to take the long way around the mast to return to safety.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/23/2010 : 19:16:12

I have a nit-picky question, but some of you might know the answer. My local WM store does not stock the Ronstan 30100A block that seems to be in the picture I've seen. So I picked up Harken #166 instead. Only problem I've had is that the little swivel shackle is short enough that it's very tough to get on, and it's tight enough that it looks like in use it might torque the cringle a bit. (I haven't yet reinstalled my repaired boom and sail yet.)

Have any of you tried the Harken block and rejected it for this reason? If not, then why do all of you seem to use the Ronstan block instead?

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/23/2010 : 21:23:10

Order the Ronstan online and they will ship it to your local WM for free. You want that block to hang free so as not to bind up when you need it to work.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/23/2010 21:23:52

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/24/2010 : 17:38:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Order the Ronstan online and they will ship it to your local WM for free. You want that block to hang free so as not to bind up when you need it to work.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks. It's already on order - I just wanted to know whether to wait for it or go ahead and use the Harken block.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/03/2011 : 21:43:49

Time to reactivate this thread. Since getting the two Ronstan blocks last summer (described above), I have enjoyed single line reefing with much less friction. However, I recently have grown irritated at the fact that tension on the reefing line pulls the leech cringle down below the boom instead of pulling the luff cringle down to the boom. So today I removed the block from the leech cringle and ran the line through the cringle instead. As a result, the leech cringle now has a "hard stop" at the boom, and further tensioning of the reefing line pulls down the luff cringle to the boom. It seems to work better now, although I've only tested it in the dock. (Took advantage of a calm evening.)

While I was at it, I finally rigged a second reef. My original Catalina mainsail already has reefing points, and I had installed a mast gate last week to allow the sail slugs to drop all the way to the boom. (Since CatalinaDirect only sells the mast gates in pairs, I'm about ready to sell the second one if anyone is interested.) I already had an unused cheek block on the port side of the boom directly below the 2nd reef luff cringle (leftover from a PO who probably used it for a 2nd reef), so I shackled three additional blocks: one near the top of my vang, another block to the unused reefing cleat on the starboard side of the mast (directly opposite the cheek block on the port side), and a third at the port base of the mast. The second reefing line is tied around the boom below the luff cringle, goes up to the block in the luff cringle on the starboard side of the sail, down to the cheek block, forward to the block at the top of the vang, angles down to the block on the reefing cleat, up to the leech cringle and through to the port side of the sail, then down to the block at the base of the mast, through an unused cheek block on the deck and back to an unused clutch. I had bought 50' of line and it needed every inch of it. I have not tested it out yet aside from in the slip, but it seems to work well aside from having a lot of lines dangling around when I drop the sail.

I'll try to post pics or drawings when I get time.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/04/2011 06:11:47

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