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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Single Backstay-Mainsheet-Furler Control

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2008 : 19:23:59

LOL, I think I got it now so I can rest that brain. I'll post step by step photos of this mod installation.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2008 : 22:33:42

Randy, forgot to thank you for the attention you brought to this project. You saved me from a costly mistake. I'm quite sure I speak for the vast majority of people here when saying you do an excellent job and that we all apreciate your efforts. A definite strong asset to the association. Looking forwards to sail with you soon. So, Thank you!

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/23/2008 22:37:52

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2008 : 22:43:25

You're welcome Steve. It always helps to have more than one mind on a project. That is one of the things I really value about this forum. All sorts of people bring their own perspective and expertise to the topic. Plus, we all benefit by you experimenters!

Sounds like you have been busy getting Vida Nova cruise ready.

We're aiming to see you in the San Juans in 2009!

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2008 : 00:40:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SCnewbie
 I really like this mod. It will make installation of my bimini on the bimini butler much easier. I plan to tackle this by keeping the backstay attached to the original port side location. I don't have seats to interfere. My concern is that the original location may not be strong enough to support the stay on its own. Is that why Catalina put two of them and split the load originally?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I haven't compared the backplate of the original stay VS the new floor padeye, but I believe they should the same and plenty strong. I think the idea behind having 2 padeyes originaly was to have a means to adapt an adjustable backstay (mostly for racers). A racer wouldn't look to kindly at a single backstay. Also made things more symetrical. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2008 : 12:10:56

If you don't currently have a bimini, then spend awhile figuring out the best width for your boat.
Ours is mounted on the coambings, others are mounted outside the coambings, much wider (perhaps as much as 9" wider)
Ours bimini poles are about 1"+ inboard of the outboard tube of the catbird seats, so the bimini doesn't cover the seat too well, and interferes with the occupant, and with our original backstay, the bimini needs a hole in it for the stay.
The only advantage of our 'narrow' bimini is that we can use twin backstays to the masthead and eliminate the stay as a catchall.

Looking forward to Vida Nova's new setup pics.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 16:18:56

Now if I can only find a #6 grommet. All I find going at 5 different stores + 1 camping one are #5's. I need to pass 16mm. How frustrating.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 19:44:18

Darnit Mauri Pro Sailing just emailed me this morning saying they don't have my Norseman's in stock. Why did it take so long to warn me about it! I canceled everything and going with RiggingOnly, they seem to have a much faster response from Randy's post. Going to go with 1 mechanical and the other end rigged by them.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 19:56:22

Just emailed my order to RiggingOnly.com as Randy suggested.

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 20:44:57

Used a triple-block to replace the split backstay. Works like a charm, does not interfere with seat, cockpit, wheel steering-no brainer for me. The split backstay has got to go!

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 22:37:57

The only place I could find #6 grommets locally was at a local shop that repairs boat canvas such as doggers and bimini's.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 22:58:53

Hey Frogger, how about a photo of your setup?

Steve, I think you will be happy with riggingonly.com. I bought a Schaeffer furler for my old C22 from them. Great folks and great prices.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 13:37:38

First let me say my backstays came from the factory attached to the catbird seats. So my solution was the grommet idea, not mine, but a forum member.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 13:54:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> First let me say my backstays came from the factory attached to the catbird seats<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, then I stand corrected. Catalina must find the seats a viable attachment point. That does open up lots of options. Nice bimini Frog!

I also like that table behind the fuel locker. With the stays attached to the seats, as your are, do the backstays get in your way around the helm? Looks like it might open things up a bit more. Did Catalina weld on rings at the seats for the backstays?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/29/2008 13:56:45

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 14:13:40

Those that have boats with wheel steering and split backstays connected to the transom can tell you it is neck cutter. I was very happy when my new boat arrive with them hooked to the seats and I ran back an forth from the wheel with no worry of neck engagement.
Yes, Catalina welded the hook points to the seats.
The table serves lots of purposes. Here is just one.

Edited by - frog0911 on 06/29/2008 14:25:02

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 15:24:02

My kids (10 & 13) enjoy jumping off the back like yours. I've never heard of this "table", I have my BBQ mounted there.

Nice job on your bimini install. Many questions:
1. Looks like it's 4 feet?
2. You can stand under it?
3. Seems that stays are the same standard length of 7' correct?
4. From the first picture (posted on 06/29/2008 : 13:37:38) looks like the stays can still rub against your face, but it sure looks like a heck of an improvement. Please comment on this.
5. While underway your boom goes below the bimini right?
6. What year did they ship WK with backstays attached to the seats? Never heard of this.

Thanks for posting these picture Frog.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 16:08:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
First let me say my backstays came from the factory attached to the catbird seats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I like them atached to the seat , I saved some of your pictures and showed them to a rigger (last year) they said not a good idea for me(no matter how many buts I gave them)

so a single offset sounds good

nice diveing board

Edited by - SEAN on 06/29/2008 16:09:40

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2008 : 16:18:58

RiggingOnly.com shipped my order yesterday! Now that is service my friends! I should be getting my order mid next week.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2008 : 21:32:43

I have been out of computer contact doing trim carpenter work on my daughter-in -laws house so did not see all the questions. Anyway her goes:

1.The kids are not mine, the girl is our fleet captains granddaughter(age 10) and the boy is the son (age 11) of the gentleman watching on the dock. At my age I would not last a couple of days if I had young kids. The grand kids find , but you can send them back when you wear out.
The table was made of oak flooring use in semi-trailers. I have to rework it yearly to look nice. I think I am going to Cetol it this year and see what happens.
2. The bimini is six feet long, 88 inches wide and 54 inches high. The General is 5'7" and I am 5'9" both can stand up straight under it no problem.
3. I do not know about the 7' stays, but my original boat 734(another story) had the split stays connected at the transom. The split is at the same point, but am sure the length is different. Check the picture and you will see what looks like a black spot on the port transom, this is the indentation were the backstay was connected on my original boat. The starboard doesn't show do to the lighting and angle when the picture was taken.
4. The stays never touch me and believe me, on Wednesday's Beer Can races, single handed, I move back an forth very quickly from wheel to winches many times.
5. When racing I fold the bimini back against the backstay and tie it off. So some shade from half the bimini is still available. When cruising I usually leave the topping lift pulled up tight as you see in the picture and just sail along.
6. To the best of my knowledge my boat is the only one that came from the factory that way. If there is another they are not a member of this forum.
7. You can make this mod without having to weld anything on the seat. There is an item that I use for other things called a pulpit anchor, p-1180 of WM catalog that would work fine for this purpose. You then attach your stays once the correct length with a Eye Jaw, p-1176 or "D" shackle, p-1183. One of our forum members attached his to the outside of the cat seats. I don't remember who, but it turned out great and gives more room than I have. You might search the archives for his mod.
I hope I answered them all without getting to long winded.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 00:11:29

Thanks for the answers frog. My bimini is also 6 feet long by 88 inches wide. I chose to go with the 46" high one simply because from my measurements the boom had to pass over the bimini.

From this picture, it looks like your boom is lifted way high.

My boom is about level. I do admit that 54" is the perfect height but I couldn't see how I could raise the boom so high without affecting performance. I understand that for racing you retract the bimini somewhat and for cruising you simply lift the boom up with the topping lift. I am about to get those Bimini Butlers SCNewbie talked about so I can adjust the height. I now wonder if they are overkill since just raising the boom like you do seems to do the trick.

I measure 70" and my bimini will be at 64" from the cockpit floor. All I'm missing is 6-7" to stand. Now that I think about it 6" isn't much on the boom. I wouldn't like to race with a bimini blocking my view of the main sail and mast top anyways. I wonder if I could just add a small 7" piece of tube to extend my bimini slightly higher? Then again the Bimini Butler is the ideal solution.

Another solution is to amputate myself right under the kneecaps. This way I could stand upright in the cabin aswell. However the downside is that I would walk around kinda funny.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/03/2008 13:45:41

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 15:03:26

Hey STeve, regarding the butler, I just sent you an email. Let me know wehn you get it and I will head to the Post Office today.

Coury

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 17:24:24

I'll read it tonight. This is my office computer.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 17:54:23

Jerry, Couple questions re bimini. When sitting in catbird seats, do you have shade protection and as I steer with tiller extension from catbird seats, can you see wind vane/indicator at top of mast and tell-tales on jib?
Steve A

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 20:54:48

The reason I went with the six footer was to insure the cat seats were protected by it. However, you cannot see the mast top from this position. A couple of sailors I know, had a window installed in the top of their bimini so they could see the windex and leach of the main for trimming. I though about it, but since I don't use it when cruising, I use yarn on the stays, since speed and perfect sail trim is not a requirement.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 22:13:23

Got some photos of the backstay padeye backings.

Not very beefy. Must not be much of a load on them.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2008 : 06:06:09

The load is parralell to the hull skin, very little must be vectored to pulling outwards.
Gotta ask, what's the tube and wire?

Paul

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