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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Single Backstay-Mainsheet-Furler Control

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2008 : 09:51:01

"Tube" is the wiring from the outboard going through its thru-hull.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2008 : 23:13:56

FREE AT LAST! FREEEEE AT LAAAAAAST!

I'm done with scraping my ears, face and throat on that backstay!

My son who is about only 5-6" shorter than me.

Sitting on the catbird seat. Notice I can still use the pigtail.

Top eye that connects right to turnbuckle. Sta-Lok swageless. I found it quite easy to take my measurement, cut the wire (with my dremel) and install the Sta-Lok. Before cutting the wire I opened the turnbuckle (unscrewed) it as much as possible. As predicted once tightened the turnbuckle was half way 50/50 exactly like I wanted.

At first I thought RiggingOnly messed up my order, but after reviewing my email to them I did not specify the space for the fork and only the pin size. As you can see it couldn't fit through the padeye as intended and I had to put a small shackle. Not sure how this shackle is rated but it's a quality sailboat shackle. I'm going to try to find one a little more beefier.

Another point of view.

NEXT is the bimini installation. I already have the grommet installed and supports installed on the boat. Didn't have time tonight as I was racing, will do the bimini install Saturday. SCNewbie (Coury) was nice enough to GIVE me his extra Bimini Butler. I will show you guys how this works once I get them.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/09/2008 23:26:47

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 00:32:36

Nicely done, Steve! Sharp looking kid too.

Please post the items that you ordered, especially at the turnbuckle end. This looks like a good mod and it helped to have that photo showing the minimal impact on the catbird seat. Thanks for posting.

Did you put a white plastic cover on the backstay?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 03:25:50

Yes that is a Teflon plastic cover for 5/32 wire on the backstay to protect rubbing against the catbird seat and our faces, costs about $2.50 for the whole length and a bitch to install. The turnbuckle end is a Sta-Lok Eye 5/32 in. Wire 5/16 in. Pin which fits absolutely perfectly with the turnbuckle end. Could've done better with the other end (at the padeye) but I will be using something like the forged eye jaw toggle as seen at the bottom of this RiggingOnly page:

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/10/2008 03:33:35

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 11:39:26

Welcome aboard Steve!

I use the 3/16 covers. They rotate, but work fine. The 5/32 are also a pain to remove after the UV is done with them.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 11:43:11

Dave, going with the 3/16 is probably the way to go. The 5/32 covers just fit way to tight. Thanks again for posting that mod, i'm really happy with the results.

Edited by - on

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 11:50:52

Glad it worked for you, and curious what your next mod is after the bimini?

It never ends.....

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 12:12:12

Nothing for this year. However I still have to mount my solar panel and maybe an LCD TV (I have yet to find an affordable one with low enough amps).

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 14:38:24

Steve, I am going to do this mod. So which fork do you think you should hve ordered to avoid the need for the jaw toggle? IS what you wanted the 5/32 toggle jaw (Set5)?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/10/2008 14:50:50

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 14:52:55

Good decision Randy.

Well, if you look at how our backstay is currently attached its through a T Jaw Toggle. If you could attach the same type and size to the end of your new backstay that would be good. However, what you can also do is have another eye with 5/16 pin eye installed and just use a nice shackle (like I just bought) with a 5/16 pin. So what you end up with is a 5/32 wire with 2 eyes at the ends, one being a Sta-Lok swageless and the other swaged by Rigging Only. If I would do it again, I would go with the latter 2 eye idea. For me the fork will do and its probably rated >3000# (estimated), but an eye would've been slightly stronger in my opinion but I have no numbers to back this up with.

For what its worth I'd like to add that the whole backstay feels very stiff and strong after this mod. The cockpit feels bigger too.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/10/2008 15:00:55

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 17:18:17

Steve, not to belabor the point but I want to order the easiest setup. On the page from riggingonly that yyou posted there is a category called "Toggle Jaws" that includes a part called "Set5" which is 5/32 wire and 5/16 pin. Isn't that what I would want them to swage onto the end of a 5/32 wire and then use the Sta-Lock eye at the other (turnbuckle) end of the wire?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2008 : 17:31:37

Yes Randy. This looks like the Toggle Jaw you need. Just make sure you have enough width (space) so your padeye fits in there. The space on my fork was way too small and I couldn't slide the fork onto the padeye. Mine looks more like the AF5 under the Forks section. I believe the padeyes on our boats are 5/16" thick so you must have a "fork" that is wide enough. Ask RiggingOnly about the width of that Set 5 Toggle Jaw.

We're going to look real sharp the both of us on our cruise in 2009! :-)

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/10/2008 17:44:02

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2008 : 19:39:35

nice Steve ,

thats on my list

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2008 : 19:59:54

Your welcome but to make things fair, this is Dave's modification and idea (528).

I installed my bimini this weekend but forgot my camera. I got the grommet pretty precise but then figured out that when I will be raising the bimini this grommet position needs to change. So my idea now is to put in a 6 inch zipper installed right where the grommet is. This way I can adjust the position as I raise or lower the bimini. I didn't have to move my main sail to boom connection point forwards as I have about 1" of clearance there. As predicted my daugther (10 yrs old) could sit in the catbird seats but an adult cannot. We need about another 4"-6". I have about 2-3" clearance under my boom

Sailing with the bimini was VERY different as I could not see my main sail. I installed some strands of plastic bags on the shrouds to see where the wind was coming from. Even if I would only use the bimini when gunkholing it would still be worth it. Our fatigue was nearly non-existant at the end of our day sail just due to not baking in the sun all day.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 12:01:26

The Admiral has given the go-ahead for this mod. She is the main catbird seat sitter and I <s>wanted</s> needed her approval.

So, Steve, how long is the 5/32 wire segment that you ordered? I assume you went a little long and cut it back.

Also, it looks like you can reach the turnbuckle by standing on the cockpit bench. Correct?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/18/2008 12:02:01

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 12:37:58

I ordered 10' of wire and once cut was left with about 2.5 feet. You can adjust the turnbuckle easily by standing on the bench. The turnbuckle will also be closer to starboard now which makes the task even easier. I'm in the process of having a 10" zipper installed right where the wire and bimni cross. Also have to install a zipper on the bimini boot (cover). The grommet will not really work that well with the Bimini Butler raising device because it needs to follow the wire on the horizontal plane when raising and lowering. The bimini sits on the exterior of the cockpit on the hull joint at 29" from the step. With the bimni fully retracted it stands straight up (horizontal support by the backstay) with plenty of room to stand (probaly 6" over my head).

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 21:03:30

"Your welcome but to make things fair, this is Dave's modification and idea (528)."

yep , sorry dave this is a long thread ,
ok you guys sold me ,
can somebody make a short list ?
did you order everything from rigging only ?

Edited by - on

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 22:33:09

Tech Tip: If you attach the turnbuckle to the stern pad-eye, it is much easier to adjust. When it is mid-cable, I found it will twist the cable unless you can hold a wrench on both ends while adjusting. You are also able to sit and make the adjustment instead of working overhead. Just my experience from the evolution of this mod.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 22:57:43

thanks dave

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2008 : 13:29:45

Dave is correct in stating that if you leave the turnbuckle at it's original location then you'll have to use a pair of vice grips and screwdrivers to keep the cable from twisting. However I found this to be a non-issue because it is so easy. If you decide to go exactly like Dave did with the turnbuckle at the lower end, you'll have to replace the whole backstay from top to bottom, and lower the mast for installation. That the reason why I just went the way I did, didn't feel like lowering my mast.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2008 : 23:32:35

Sean, I am ordering this setup from riggingonly. It follows the method Steve used - keeping the turnbuckle where it is - but uses a toggle jaw fitting at the bottom (padeye connection) that avoids the problem Steve had with the fork fitting.

Set5 Toggle Jaw (5/32 wire, 5/16 pin) @ $9.37
10' of 5/32 wire (1X19) @ $8.10
Service charge to swage the wire to the Toggle Jaw @ $7.50
SLEY0510 Sta-Lok Swageless Eye (5/32 wire, 5/16 pin) @ $27.00

Total, less shipping = $51.97

The only question, which I will ask them tomorrow, is whether the Set5 Toggle Jaw will fit the padeye on the aft coaming which I believe is 5/16" thick.

This looks like a good value mod.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2008 : 04:17:17

thanks Randy ,

I thought the set 5 was - a set of 5

Edited by - SEAN on 07/22/2008 04:19:35

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2008 : 12:43:33

Randy,
Not to highjack this thread at this point as you guys all have a lot of work into this modification, but I have thought putting a [url="http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/00027.htm"]Quick Release Lever[/url] in the back stay would make preparing for trailer easier. I always have to back the turnbuckle off when I lower the mast, so I can disconnect the backstay (so I can then release the forestay). This would give the ability to just release the backstay and not mess with the turn buckle. You may even be able to eliminate the turnbuckle? I have not used these before so not sure on that aspect? It may even have enough throw when released so the backstay doesn't have to be disconnected to get the forestay pin out? Just my two cents.

I seen them for sale at mauriprosailing.com and pyacht.com on line for $60.00-$70.00.

Edited by - welshoff on 07/22/2008 12:52:49

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2008 : 12:57:42

That's a great idea. Especially for someone lowering and raising the mast often.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2008 : 13:44:36

ok my order is in $59

Edited by - on

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