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Single Backstay-Mainsheet-Furler Control

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 01:21:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I was looking at mine last night. I was wondering why it was necesary to go to all the trouble of replacing the wire and the swedged on end and the swageless end, etc. and etc. Why not just replace the little triangular piece of steel at the "Y" junction with a strait connection between the turnbuckle and the single lower cable? Engineers, what am I missing?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes it would just be too long. Instead of cutting the stock backstay, I rather have a new shorter one that fits right into the turnbuckle.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 08:45:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sean put a short piece of the plastic wire cover I used not to damage your stainless seats.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I see what the plastic cover is for now ,Ill get a small piece .

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 10:11:47

I thought it might be about the length. Why not just take out the steel connector plate altogether and simply attach the t-bolt thingy (sorry for the real technical terms) directly? Too short? The size of the pins is different as well. Problem?

Man, this thread is long! Wonder if there's ever been one longer?

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 10:44:18

its to easy , getting the new stuff .
its 6" to 8" to long when pulled to the side.

take off the old and save it .
you can always put it back .

all you need is a dremal with a cut off wheel .

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 11:23:40

Hmmm, I will say that one of the concerns I have about this mod (I have ordered my stuff, should arrive later this week) is that the backstay is not "fair." Not a big deal but still a nagging issue for me. I may experiment around and see if I could add/relocate a padeye to the inside of the coaming and get a straight shot. I posted a photo of the backing of the current padeye and it is only a set of washers and I think the entire coaming structure back there is built the same. When my stuff arrives I'll play around a bit with it.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 12:03:49

I feel the same way , I think the final spot for me will be a pad eye on the floor , with a adjuster .

now , maybe Ill make the whole thing myself this winter (if it doesnt fall down by then lol), when the mast is down and can measure the length

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 17:40:27

I have to admit that mounting another padeye on the floor (or other) that would make the backstay "fair" and about 1/4" from the outside of the catbird seat would be ideal. I'm starting to consider this for next season before I make other changes to my bimini zippers.

For the moment I'm happy enough.

Randy, before you cut your wire and install the Sta-Lok why don't you just install that new padeye? How difficult can it be?

Sean: You nailed it when saying "I feel like I have a convertible". That's the best way to put forth the feeling this mod gives.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/27/2008 17:46:24

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 19:25:41

I think I need a bimini now , to much sun :)

defender has the padeyes its just how thick is the floor ?

Edited by - SEAN on 07/27/2008 19:27:50

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 20:39:42

The sole is not thick. I'd say that when I drilled the holes in the fuel locker for the new steering system that it was about 3/8" thick there. Solid fiberglass.I am thinking about the possibility of locating the padeye right below where the outboard wiring enters the coaming.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/27/2008 20:47:32

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 20:49:20

Hmmm. I wonder if it's thicker on the 2008 model.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 20:56:28

wow I thought thicker , thats good to know .

Defender has water proff pad eyes .

Edited by - SEAN on 07/27/2008 20:57:38

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2008 : 23:44:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am thinking about the possibility of locating the padeye right below where the outboard wiring enters the coaming.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Maybe you could remove the plastic cover and find out how thick the fiberglass is on that area? If it's the same as the stern then you should be fine. I was also thinking of this spot for the padeye.

Also looking at your picture, I wonder if we could mount it on the transom where the engine is mounted. That area to the left, padeye would face inward (towards us). I don't think that would interfere with the engine in any way.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/27/2008 23:48:45

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 06:03:01

I put a stern shower on that side wall its about 1/4" thick

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2008 : 10:44:50

How thick is the stern for comparison purposes?

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 20:01:27

My gear arrived today from riggingonly.com. Here is the stuff. At one end is an eye toggle that will attach to a padeye/U-bolt. It is swaged to 10' of 5/32 wire. The final item (in the bag in the first photo) is the Sta-Lok eye which will attach to the wire and then to the existing turnbuckle on the backstay. The second photo shows how it will attach to the wire.

Here is the U-bolt that I am getting for the deck attachment.

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/32503/377%20710/0/wichard%20U%20bolt/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=wichard%20U%20bolt&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=wichard%20U%20bolt&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=323&classNum=457"]Wichard U-Bolt[/url]

I am getting the larger white one. It is rated for 6600lbs. Current plan is to mount it on the sole by the outboard or the swim ladder.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 20:06:53

Swim ladder side is a broken toe waiting to happen.

Edit to add: Will putting it on the starboard side put the stay in the way of the tilting motor?

Edited by - John Russell on 07/30/2008 20:20:27

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 20:32:06

I understand the toe concern but we rarely use the swim ladder and we always wear boat shoes when on the boat. I will try out a bunch of locations. By the outboard would be great if it works.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 : 15:19:00

Yeah, that's the way to do it. I which I would've known about that before installing mine (the U-Bolt). I trusted that the backstay wouldn't get in the way but it kinda does when sitting in the seat. Doing it again I would go the U-Bolt route but for now just rerouting it outside of the seat works for me.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 23:18:17

The Wichard U-bolt arrived today. Nice piece of gear and heavy-duty. It fits the toggle just fine. Tomorrow we'll study where to locate it.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 : 10:46:54

It looks long enough to allow for a piece of starboard or something to act as a backer, eh?

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
Navigator

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166 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2008 : 15:20:58

Just ordered the parts for this project. Mine will attach to the original starboard side attachment at the base of the stern rail (no seat on a 1995.) How did you figure out where the zipper needs to be on your bimini? I have the top all put together n the frame but don't know where I will need a zipper.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2008 : 20:48:09

mine is still good ,

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2008 : 00:18:28

Sorry for not responding sooner. I'm going to the boat tomorrow and will get you pictures and all measurements Sunday. Meanwhile here are a few things to consider:

This picture shows the modification needed on the boot (cover) with zippers in a reverse T. Both side (horizontal) zippers are open ended on each side so they open up fully. The central zipper (vertical) is also open ended. This is so you can open up all zippers and put the boot on, otherwise you couldn't.

Bimini in boot resting on the backstay. The bimini points straight up this way.

Bimini attached on exterior of coamings on the hull joint. 29" aft of the step. Also notice the small attachment points right next to the step. This is where the bimini is held down. Also have one very far aft.

I will post pictures with the bimini deployed, with the Bimini Butler installed and more details on zipper placements soon.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 08/08/2008 00:26:10

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2008 : 00:50:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SCnewbie
 Just ordered the parts for this project. Mine will attach to the original starboard side attachment at the base of the stern rail (no seat on a 1995.) How did you figure out where the zipper needs to be on your bimini? I have the top all put together n the frame but don't know where I will need a zipper.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actualy there are 2 techniques:

Technique #1:
With only the frame up and new backstay installed with the bimini canvas going through only the aft pole of your bimini. Make sure the bimini frame is level and pull the canvas over to the backstay and mark where they meet. You will probably have to tie the frame up at various spots so it doesn't move while you take your measurements. If you have a Bimini Butler installed it would be a good idea to do the same markings in the up and down position. You now know where the canvas and backstay will intersect. I used a 10" zipper which is a little longer than I needed. Start the zipper at about 3" aft of your marking so it's not too tight.

Technique #2: (What I should've done in the first place)
With the frame, canvas and backstay as in #1, make your first marking. Then cut a hole where the marking is and reinstall the bimini with the new hole going through the backstay. Have a 10" zipper preinstalled on a piece of Sunbrella and also pass this through the backstay. Now you can slide around the zipper and when perfectly in place you can pin it down (or duct tape it). Bring the canvas over to your sower.

One little humourous note is that on mine they sowed the zipper upside down. In other words, I cannot gain access to the zipper pull ends when under the bimini, I have to somehow go on top. I wrongly assumed that the zipper ends would go either way, but not on the industrial plastic zippers I chose. Not a big deal because I'm going to relocate my backstay outside of the catbird seat for greater comfort meaning that I will have to move my zipper (and turn it around!). I will cut it out and do as described in technique #2 to have a perfect fit.

Edited by - on

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2008 : 12:51:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 The sole is not thick. I'd say that when I drilled the holes in the fuel locker for the new steering system that it was about 3/8" thick there. Solid fiberglass.I am thinking about the possibility of locating the padeye right below where the outboard wiring enters the coaming.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Randy,

Can you provide details about how you routed the outboard wiring through the starboard side of the cockpit (as shown in this picture)?
Thanks!

Martin

Edited by - MartinJW on 08/08/2008 12:52:59

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