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NEW TOHATSU 9.9 4STROKE???

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2004 : 22:48:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Cavitation has nothing to do with that plate whatsoever.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Huh? The name for that plate and its purpose have been around since way before you were born, Don... I always thought cavitation was the sucking of air down around the prop, causing a "cavity" in the water. What is it really?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No Dave,...the name for the plate is "Antiventilation" and air getting sucked into the prop is called "Ventilation". "Cavitation" is when low pressure causes water to boil on the surface of the prop.

Check out this from [url="http://www.mercurymarine.com/chapter_4_-_propeller_technology"]Mercury Marine Propeller Terminlogy[/url]. Under the paragraph for Ventilation it says...

"Outboard engines and stern drive units are designed with a large "antiventilation" plate cast integrally into the gear housing (also commonly called the "gearcase") directly above the propeller (Figure 4-18). This plate is frequently, but incorrectly, referred to as a "cavitation" or "anticavitation" plate. The purpose of this plate is to eliminate or reduce the possibility of air being drawn from the surface into the negative pressure side of the propeller blades."

Edited by - dlucier on 04/07/2004 22:58:07

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2004 : 23:02:00

Well, Don, that was written by somebody else who was born after the plate and the terminology were invented. I can just about quote the owner's manual for the 1952 and 1956 Johnsons we had when I was an enthusiastic kid. The cavitation/ventilation distinction is a latter-day invention. But if it makes somebody happy... I'm just an old curmudgeon.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2004 : 23:09:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Well, Don, that was written by somebody else who was born after the plate and the terminology were invented. I can just about quote the owner's manual for the 1952 and 1956 Johnsons we had when I was an enthusiastic kid. The cavitation/ventilation distinction is a latter-day invention. But if it makes somebody happy... I'm just an old curmudgeon.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The cavitation/ventilation distinction is a latter day invention and without that plate, the prop will suffer cavitation damage; I suppose I'm an old curmoudgeon as well.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2004 : 23:45:37

Gee, I need to find some more of these engineering terms vs common folk terms and put them on the forum. This is the most action I've seen since winter.
By the way one other item of interest is you must remove the prop before flushing the engine with fresh water. Don't understand it, but for a three year warranty I'll do it.

Edited by - frog0911 on 04/07/2004 23:48:01

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2004 : 19:51:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 
By the way one other item of interest is you must remove the prop before flushing the engine with fresh water. Don't understand it, but for a three year warranty I'll do it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm guessing it's a safety/liability thing... If you flush with the prop exposed, they might not want any possibility of it spinning and taking your ear (or something else) off.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2004 : 23:32:02

That is the strange part. The procedure calls for the engine to be vertical, which for me is in the water, and the intake water strainer taped over, which I understand, then run in idle and neutral for five minutes. Like I said, for a three year warranty no problem.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2004 : 12:37:37

Jerry, there must be more to the flush story? Where does the fresh water get injected?

I agree with Dave, removing the prop could be simply a safety issue. Honda says to remove it as well and declares it to be for safety reasons.

Honda which uses a fresh water injection point... outlines 10 minutes of flush but no running is required other than using the pull rope to turn the motor over a few times to ensure that all parts of the pump are flushed.

16.5 lbs lighter than the Honda is great... I'm envious of that and the narrower cowl.

28" shaft is ideal.

Give us your opinion as to stopping ability, does it have reasonably good reverse thrust?

The feature that Honda really shines with for the C250 is its rotation adjuster. It is front mounted and is a lever so requires no tools to adjust and can be done on the fly very easily. This is a plus for the 250 which really benefits from motor turning when docking.

How does the rotation tensioner work on the Tohatsu? Is it easy to operate, lock or loosen? Can this be done from the front while underway? Does it require a tool or simply moving a lever?

On the older Honda, it wasn't very accessible... and even with very careful adjustment to hold the motor from freely turning and yet allow turning... it wasn't ideal. If it was set loose enough for reasonable turning, it would flop from one tack to the other when the motor was tilted up and required a bungee restraint. The newer adjuster is the cats meow.

How do you rate the noise level?

Does it offer any vibration issues?

No surprise about the two wires... The alternator and starter both use the positive lead.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2004 : 16:00:40

I have not hung the engine yet so I can only answer the mechanical questions. Been busy taking care of UNCLES requirements.
The flush attach point is just below where the lower unit bolts onto the shaft. The Steering friction adjust is on the side just behind the mount, it has a spring on it and requires a small wrench to adjust. I tried to turn it by hand and could not. They did give me a tool kit that contains the necessary wrenches, a pair of pliers and a screw driver.
Going to hang the new rudder now and put in the wiring plug so I can hang it tomorrow. Probably take her out Sunday for a good motor test on turning, backing and stopping.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2004 : 16:07:23

Well she is hung and looks quite nice, IMHO. First thing I checked was the pull start. Pumped the blub, pull out the choke and pulled the started rope. She cranked on the second pull dead cold. Shut it down used the electric start button with no problems. The voltage output at idle was 13 volts. Cracked the throttle to the restart position and got 13.8 volts. The restart raises the RPM about 100. Next a reverse thrust test was enough pull on the dock lines at 1/8 throttle that when the General step on the lines they did not give an inch. So it looks good. Then check turning radius and I can turn it lock to lock about 45 degrees each way with no problems. I had to remove the lower starboard screw from the steel mount plate so the motor clamp would lay flush. The motor is very quite and my Pepsi sitting on top did not move when idling in the restart position, so vibration is minimal. One of the best things is when it is tilted up fully the motor is almost parallel to the water. Oh, and raising it is as easy as my old Sailmaster which weight in at 70 lbs. All in all I am very happy with the product so far. The big test will be motoring down to a friend of mine's house in East Plataka on the 29th. I will break it in on that run of about 32 miles. Will let you know the fuel use after that.
I had more trouble installing the new rudder than hanging the engine. My dealer had Catalina install new hardware on the rudder and I had to drop an loosen the ladder to get the bottom pintle in the hole. The top one was short and I had to stand on the rudder while the General put the carter key in place. And lastly I had to file the hole out in the pedestial steering bracket so the pin would fit with the help of a wooden mallet. I called the dealer and he is taking my old hardware of the damaged rudder and sending it to me. I don't know if I will get it swapped out before the race, but I will eventually.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2004 : 14:04:21

I finally got to test the new outboard over a long haul. I needed to break it in so I ran engine only 42.5 miles from my dock to Palatka, Fl. The winds were 16 gust to 20 quartering off the port bow almost all of the trip and I continually got soaked with 70 degree river water. Other than that it was a good trip. The trip took six hours and 50 minutes and I never ran the engine over half throttle except for one minute bursts as called for in the break in procedure. Fuel required for the trip was 5.25 gallons. So the running totals are: average speed 6.2MPH, fuel consumption .76GPH. The reverse thrust was more than ample getting out of my slip at home with good steering and to stop the boat going into the slip at Palatka with a quartering tale wind of 10MPH. All in all I am very pleased with the overall performance.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2004 : 09:24:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by osmepneo
 Just checked onlineoutboards.com and the Tohatsu horsepower ratings are the same as the Nissan! Onbe would expect so as they are the same ob.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They are. I picked up a 2 stroke electric start tohatsu 8 hp for about 1200 last year. We haven't had any problems with it. It cost us 100 bucks to ship it from florida, but it was well worth it.

I can't speak directly about the the 4 stroke, but the motor itself has been great and runs like a charm. Now if the dealer would only come clean and give me the new cowling cover that was cracked during shipping...( I wasn't paying another hundred to send it back for a crack)

Edited by - on

jmeadows
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2004 : 12:10:46

This could be what I'm looking for also
two questions:

1) Do you have to remove anything to access the rope pull on the elect start model?

2) Are the controls on the tiller (F,N,R, & start)

Thanks

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2004 : 15:45:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jmeadows
 This could be what I'm looking for also
two questions:

1) Do you have to remove anything to access the rope pull on the elect start model?

2) Are the controls on the tiller (F,N,R, & start)

Thanks

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1. There is a pull rope right on the front end. As there is an emergency rope that can be attached to the fly wheel under the cover

2.No

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2004 : 16:31:27

The 2 stroke has a manual pull in the usual place and the controls are on the starboard side. The tiller is speed control.

Don't know about the 4 stroke, but that's the way it is on the 2.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2004 : 20:59:20

As Duane said, the 4 stroke has a pull rope with nice soft handle. No need to remove the cover. It also comes with an emergency rope, for just in case, to use you must remove the cover.
The shifter is on the right side of the engine and the throttle is on the tiller. I would have like the shifter to be on the front, I think the honda has that, but I was not willing to carry the extra 30lbs for the XLS motor.

Edited by - frog0911 on 05/05/2004 21:00:14

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2004 : 21:16:51

Hoooop, dar it is... my new Tohatsu 9.8 four stroke w/ 25" shaft & electric start.

Just got it today. Threw it in the back of the truck and hauled it out to Chick-a-pea and hung it on the transom, no sweat. (was 57f this morning, absolutely gorgeous today in N. FL.

I had to switch the connection on the tank hook up to the new fuel line. The tank that came with the motor was only three gallons and I like the six.

I still need to connect the alternator wires to battery bank and put oil in the crank case and read the manual.

My main concern is it takes up more room than the old Sailmaster 8 that was stolen. The tiller is so close to the fuel locker that it will not turn to starboard much at all. I already moved it as far to the right as I could and still keep it on the mounting pad.

Also need to mount my 5 watt solar charger above the motor and connect it to battery bank.

PS. Saw you guys out at marker G-13 this evening as I crossed Julington Creek Bridge. Hope I can make it out next Wednesday to play.

Edited by - Ben - FL on 05/05/2004 21:34:14

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2004 : 08:10:55

Ben, new engine looks great. I had to remove the top left screw from the steel plate to allow me to move the engine to the right enough that the tiller handle would allow the motor to turn fully with the tiller handle in the up position and the mount screw would sit flat on the plate. I then am able to reach back grap the hand hold on the back of the motor and turn it where I want. I only need to do this when backing out of the slip so it is not a major problem. I intend to put Aryln's soft link on it in the near future so I want have to do that reaching bit either.

Edited by - frog0911 on 05/06/2004 08:50:23

Wayne Wallace
1st Mate

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USA
28 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2004 : 10:16:09

Well I just bought my new Tohatsu 9.8 4 stroke XLS electric start and will install on Z MAJESTIC this weekend. All of the notes and particularly Ben's & Frog's pictures have really helped and I will keep you posted on how it all works out.

Wayne Wallace
Z MAJESTIC

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2004 : 15:09:02

Mr. Frog, Ben and Wayne:

I'm curious -- what is the actual shaft length of your new XLS motors (from where the top of the motor bracket rests on the motor mount to the cavitation plate)? The reason I ask is that when I once measured that length of a 6 hp LS in the store, I got about 22.5", despite the advertised specification of 20". Could you confirm that you also get an extra 2.5" "free" on the XLS?

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2004 : 20:54:51

The XLS shaft measured from the top of the mount to the top of the caviation plate is 28". Tohatsu sales information brochure classifies it as a 25" shaft..

Edited by - on

roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2004 : 23:30:04

I originally started this conversation: so now that I have a new motor installed I should give some feed back.

I first bought a Tohatsu 9.8 4 stroke XLS online: Company had to back order into May. Cancelled that.

Bought a Nissan 9.8 4 stroke XLS from Cabellas for 1999.00 +12.00 shipping Very Happy: Back Ordered well into May: Cancelled again.

Went looking for one online found one Nissan 9.8 4 stroke XLS left in stock at SailNet 1920.00 +30.00 shipping. I also paid 8.oo bucks to join there site and received a 5% discount on the purchase: Very Happy

Ordered On Monday received on Thursday.

Unpacked; Bought a Motor Cart and New Motor Mount. Had to Modify the Motor Cart as the XLS is about 2 inches longer than the avg. inexpensive cart from Garelick.

Also replaced the Stock Mount with a Garelick with an 9" reach The Larger Garelick has a 14" reach but after evaluating it only put it further out from the transom not deeper. I may have to make the mods that Frank Hopper did to his. I also made 2" thick Pad out of StarBoard (Put StarBoard on the inside of the transom also) to reinforce and put the mount further out from the transom. I bedded it down with 3m 4000.

I ran it for 2 hours in a slowly leaking garbage can with a a hose filling at Idle to break it in. Daughter and Boyfriend have been motoring around our inner harbor (They like being one of the first on the water this early) to break it in the rest of the way. Kids are great....sometimes

http://users.adelphia.net/~roberoo40/picpost/motmount.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~roberoo40/picpost/motor.jpg

Sorry about being long winded. I saved it all up. I admit to being a voyeur. y'all have a lot of great advice and I take a lot of it. Also finally took the time to organize all of my pix.

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2004 : 23:25:12

.76 GPH. Will the fuel consumption drop after the engine is fully broken in? I've been planning to purchase the Tohatsu with the expectation of .50 GPH. Need over 150 nautical mile cruising distance to run the round trip from Key West to Dry Tortugas and back.

I've got 17.5 gallons fuel capacity. At .76 burn rate that's 23 hours of run time. 23 hours @ 5.388 Nautical miles per hour (6.2 MPH)gives me 124 nautical mile range.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 I finally got to test the new outboard over a long haul. I needed to break it in so I ran engine only 42.5 miles from my dock to Palatka, Fl. The winds were 16 gust to 20 quartering off the port bow almost all of the trip and I continually got soaked with 70 degree river water. Other than that it was a good trip. The trip took six hours and 50 minutes and I never ran the engine over half throttle except for one minute bursts as called for in the break in procedure. Fuel required for the trip was 5.25 gallons. So the running totals are: average speed 6.2MPH, fuel consumption .76GPH. The reverse thrust was more than ample getting out of my slip at home with good steering and to stop the boat going into the slip at Palatka with a quartering tale wind of 10MPH. All in all I am very pleased with the overall performance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - albert on 05/08/2004 23:26:57

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2004 : 23:53:53

Albert, have you figured a reasonable fuel reserve into your calculations?

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2004 : 00:08:04

I would doubt that .50GPH would be possible unles you had a diesel. I can tell you that yesterday the General and I were enjoying a nice sail down the lake when the wind just departed leaving us drifting for about 20 minutes before I gave up and pressed the started button. On the way home at half throttle on the flat lake we did 7.4MPH. So I would say, depending on the status of the median in which you are floating, the speed could be anywhere between the 6.2 to 7.4 range. My engine has now been run eight hours of the 10 hour required break-in period and the last two hours I am sure will take awhile to get just motoring in and out of my slip. Maybe I will go out and watch the Beer Can Races a couple of times which takes about 45 minutes for me to get to the marker and get the two hours that way. I will then take it to the dealer for its ten hour tune up. Maybe after that the fuel consuption will improve, but I doubt to as low as .50GPH.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2004 : 01:38:27

You can always carry more gas.

Edited by - on

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